Viewing multiple records in their own floating windows simultaneously

[Sydney Sauber]

Hi Brendan,
Is it going to be possible to view more than one record at a time, if they are from the same “document” / database? If the answer is still, “not enough of a demand”… Fellow users, please speak up.

If anyone else would benefit from being able to see large chunks of text in notes or even multiple field values for more than one record, please let Brendan know. Brendan, I know it’s a lot of work, but I am asking anyway. More and more calendar and note-taking apps are going to the “slide over” model instead of the floating windows for each event, task or note. It might look nice and be easier to program the “3-pane” view, but the BRAIN does not work this way. If a database is supposed to hold data from years and years ago, then as important as searching, finding and editing, it the ABILITY to see multiple notes, or images or whatever details are in a record (that cannot be seen in the spreadsheet view).

Brendan, the only reason I don’t use this product as much as I want to is because after I have exported my calendar logs into TapForms, I can only see one at a time. This is the only feature I miss about FileMaker Pro. TF is so much easier to use, I have put off learning FM because I keep waiting for TF to give me some way to see multiple records in form view simultaneously.

If the answer is still, “sorry, not on the horizon”, can you bring back whatever BUG it was that allowed me to open the same “document” in multiple windows?

A few updates ago, I was able to open “document 01”, then via the menu > open> recent> “document 01”, I was able to view the multiple records from one database simultaneously.

Thanks for your consideration.

And to community members, if you ask for this, thank you, too. Apparently it is A LOT of work, but I think Brendan would end up with more customers with this feature.

Syd

[Brendan]

Hi Syd,

That’s not a feature that I have given a whole lot of thought to. With Mojave coming out soon, I’ve been focusing on working on proper Dark Mode support for Tap Forms. I don’t recall having too many requests for a feature to be able to view different records at the same time. I also don’t know of too many other apps which allow you to open the same document in multiple windows. Yes, some of them have split view panes where you can see different parts of the same content. But that seems to mostly be for text editors.

How does FileMaker allow you to do what you’re asking?

I was about to buy a copy of it the other day just so I could do competitive research, but then I found out it would cost $1200 CAD for a license. No thanks.

[Sydney Sauber]

Hi Brendan,

Here are some pix of 4 records in TapForms and the same set of 4 in FileMaker Pro 13. The TF record set was exported in CSV.

I didn’t bother to map the fields since the point is showing that the multiple windows allow one to use the application more to work with the record details.

I can open as many windows as I want, they can be resized, they can be cascaded and anything can be in them.

My work around for TapForms has been to put data in a “Notes” field, that way I can open multiple ‘Notes” fields from different records. The drawback is…it’s a notes field, so things like concatenation or other calculations won’t work in it.

Learning how to program FM and learning how to make it look like I want takes sooo much time. I haven’t done it.

TF was recommended by a former FM programmer in his blog post (Tim Dietrich) about Leaving FileMaker. One thing he mentioned was alternatives he found promising and the fact that FileMaker seems to be moving toward becoming less end user programmable and more dependent on developers to serve end users. He said it was prohibitively expensive for small businesses or other people who work for themselves.This is what drove me into TapForms arms! He described me perfectly. All the things FM makes users learn how to do, TF has quietly done behind the scenes so we can do very complex things with databases we build ourselves. This is becoming more and more rare on a LICENSED product, which is not subscription — Rented and/or Online.

Here’s what I can see with FM. And if I could do it in TF, I would feel comfortable deleting FM 13. Right now, I would have to create a workflow of exporting data from TF to FM to see the data. It’s the opposite of what many of your customers are doing, they go from FM to TF. But they must not be looking at record details (like images, long text passages…) from multiple records simultaneously.

Here they are.

Thanks for thinking about it.

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[Brendan]

So what happens if you make a change in one copy of the document? Do you see that change immediately reflected in the other copy of the same document? The problem with me doing that is that the underlying database engine (SQLite) will not see changes made from one copy to the other.

Is it just the record details that you want to see multiple copies of? Or the record list views? Or is it really the whole document?

[Sydney Sauber]

So what happens if you make a change in one copy of the document?
SS: It changes it in both, but not if a field is selected in another window.

Do you see that change immediately reflected in the other copy of the same document?
SS: Yes.

The problem with me doing that is that the underlying database engine (SQLite) will not see changes made from one copy to the other.

Is it just the record details that you want to see multiple copies of?
SS: Record details. (Imagine 300 words in Notes fields in a set of records that track process notes for experiments on a different phases of a project. If you have to compare how you did something in one instance, but forgot the slight difference in a condition, like the database was based on SQLite instead of Eclipse).

Or the record list views?
SS: The list only helps a little at times if I could see multiple lines in a notes field.

Or is it really the whole document?
SS: It’s the multiple field values from multiple records simultaneously (images, 2nd paragraph of one notes field in one record and paragraph 5 from the notes field in another record, repeat..repeat…repeat.

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[Sydney Sauber]

Here are the rest of the shots.

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[Brendan]

Thanks for all the screenshots. I’ll have to think about this some more on what I could do in Tap Forms to make this workable and to see how much demand there is for it.

[Sydney Sauber]

Thank you Brendan,

I know it is a lot of work.
I think it would get you a lot of would be FileMker customers, who need that functionality, but who don’t have the time to learn FM or the budget to hire a programmer.

TapForms does so many complex things that FM does, that’s why you’re getting so many of their customers. We can build our own databases, but for REFERRING to data across multiple records…FM customers are stuck there until you rescue us;-).

In TF, a few updates ago, I was able to open one document multiple times. If I went to the opening welcome screen or menu > open>Recent> and selected the same document that I had open .. I could do that multiple times.

I knew it was probably a happy accident that I could do this, so I never tried changing data in more than one copy.

So, I would have document 1 open in a window with the list view, another with the calendar view, and another window with a record, another 2 or 3 with different records open and only change data for one record via the FIRST window I opened.

Then I would click the “refresh” button after each change in that 1st window. Then…the changes DID update in the other windows.

I did not change a lot that way, mostly, just used it for VIEWING.

Any chance you can bring that back and lock something so we can’t screw up the data wherever it would get screwed up?

I could live with 1 window that I can change stuff in and all the others are read only.

Mostly I just need to SEE the data and scroll in the fields.

If I need to change something, I can live with changing it in ONE active “List” view window.

Being able to see multiple lines in a list would be good, like Excel cell text wrapping, but I fear that there is something (I don’t understand) that fundamentally makes that impossible.

Another thing that would make it a little easier might be if I could drag files (like a stationary file) from TF to a folder or vice versa from Finder to TF or maybe have a watch folder and TF could fetch the file and import or attach or alias it.

Some way to make TF the index and open details in separate windows.

Rambling…
Last, I can send you some of my TF records, maybe a Form with records so you can see what my use case is.

Okay,
Happy father’s day.
Syd
Thanks again!!!

Let me know if you need a beta tester for this.

[Brendan]

Hi Syd,

I think I had some customers that sent bug reports about Tap Forms opening the same document multiple times and so I fixed that so it wouldn’t happen. It was causing confusion for people.

You can use a Note field instead of a Text field, then click the little Note button on the spreadsheet view to see the full text.

You can drag into a File Attachment field from the Finder. You can also attach an alias, even to a folder. It can be a folder too, which will add an alias to the folder.

But I think I understand what you mean by setting up a watch folder to auto-import data.

I’m always happy to have new beta testers. If you want, I can add you as a tester. But please note, that doesn’t mean that I will implement every feature request you have. Or even any. But I try my best :)

Thanks!

Brendan

[Sydney Sauber]

BD:…bug reports about Tap Forms opening the same document multiple times … It was causing confusion for people.
SS: PLEASE bring it back as a FEATURE. If possible the edge of the copy windows can say “window 2” “Copy” or nothing.

It’s not confusing if the user KNOWS what it is and how it works. Most of your customers are bright enough to “build” their own databases and use the calculations and formulas. They are bright enough to understand the limitations of the “document” being open in more than one window.

BD: You can use a Note field instead of a Text field, then click the little Note button on the spreadsheet view to see the full text.

SS: I do that. And multiple Note fields from multiple records, even from multiple Forms can be opened simultaneously.

The limitation is I can’t concatenate the values from other fields in the same record or from other records into a note field, right?

Another limitation is if I “live in” Tapforms, use it like a lab notebook, and take my notes in the Notes field for a record, then I can’t just drag the note field icon to a location in the Finder, right?

I want it to behave like the image or attachment fields where, I can “send the file to…”

BD: You can drag INTO a File Attachment field from the Finder. You can also attach an alias, even to a folder. It can be a folder too, which will add an alias to the folder.

SS: If I change the name of the file, will the like still work? Sometimes I create files while working, give them a temp name with my regular prefix “[YYYYMMDDHHMM] – Tech_” then later go back and add the details “[YYYYMMDDHHMM] – Tech_TapForms_Forum_Windows” .

BD: But I think I understand what you mean by setting up a watch folder to auto-import data.

SS: If I Can’t create/capture documentation in TF because getting it out of NOTES fields is too cumbersome (no drag and drop or batch export just the note field text or images in the RTFD format in the NOTES), then I would like to have the watch folder, like Tinderbox can import from a watch folder in DEVONThink Pro Office. The ideal would be to see the same data (or at least access it) in different ways in Tinderbox, my calendar, DEVONThink, TapForms, and maybe even Freeplane and Bookends.

BD: I’m always happy to have new beta testers. If you want, I can add you as a tester. But please note, that doesn’t mean that I will implement every feature request you have. Or even any. But I try my best :)

SS: I understand. It’s just a way to give back to you and the community. Mike Schwartz helped me a lot in private e-mails. Wayyyy beyond just being a savvy user. I was sad to hear he died. You all help me, I ‘d like to give back in his name.

Sydney

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[Sydney Sauber]

Hi Brendan,

Are the multiple windows one can open in one document read only or can multiple records be edited in their own floating windows? Whichever the answer, I am so happy and releived to see them, I will do whatever will make it so you don’t remove the functionality!!!

I have not been using TapForms much lately because I needed to see multiple records simultaneously in their separate “forms”.

Today I needed a database to inventory files.

I went to File >
And then I saw “New Window”
Clicked on it and
the document I was working in opened up as many new windows as I wanted and I was able to see specific records from the same form!!

YAY!! YAY! YAY! YAY!
I wanted to make sure this isn’t a bug, as it was before.

It doesn’t seem to be documented anywhere, so I am asking what the rules are fr using the feature.

Thank you for adding it. It will now enable me to USE this application for so much!!!
I don’t want you t remove it for fear of users messing up their databases by not adhering to the best practices.

Sydney

[Brendan]

Hi Sydney,

No, it’s not a bug. I added it in a previous update.

However, there may be a problem if you’re syncing that document. You may get a sync error appear if you change one copy of the document while another is also opened. I haven’t had a chance to debug and correct that situation though. You should be able to edit both copies but you’d have to manually refresh the records list to display the updates in the other copy.

Thanks!

Brendan

[Sydney Sauber]

Thank you!
I know not many people request this, though I don’t know why!
This now means I DO NOT have to learn FileMaker just to utilize the multiple window feature (a high price to pay time and money – though I have FM 13), which is vital to my work!

Thank you.
Just curious, is there any way to see a value that has multiple lines of a string in a cell?
I think it is called text wrapping in Excel.
Thanks so much!!!
Syd

[Brendan]

For a Note field just click the little note button next to the content. A note edit window will appear. But for other field types, no, I haven’t enabled wrapping on a cell because all the cells are fixed row heights.

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